Answering Michael Gungor

Question

Michael Gungor, CCM artist, is at it again. Two years ago he began to deny the literality of Creation and the Global Flood, and the recency of the origin of the earth. Naturally, theologians and creation advocates alike criticized him. They dissected his arguments and found them lacking.

And how does he respond? In the current issue of Relevant he accuses them of calling him an apostate, a blasphemer, a heretic, a false teacher, a "twofold son of ****," and "a fool leading thousands to ****."

But he has one small problem and one big problem.

The small problem: Michael Gungor cannot name one single person who has used such ungentlemanly language to refer to him. Nor does an Internet engine search reveal any on-line published broadside calling him any of those names. One can easily find theologians (like R. Albert Mohler) and creation advocates (like Ken Ham) who tear his arguments apart. But even they don't tear him apart. The most he can cite are ******** jibes no one is willing to say in print or on-line. All we have, is his word on that. (I invite Fredericks and **********, his publicists, to contact me directly and share any concrete evidence they might possess.)

The bigger problem: he's simply mistaken. He accepts uncritically a theory of the origins of the universe, the earth, and life grounded in atheism. And that theory cannot explain observed fact. Not without such monumental distortions of physical reality as "multiverses" and what an open system really means.

He also ******* one can state scientific truth only in dry prose. Of course Genesis 1:1-2:4a is an epic poem. The rest of Genesis looks very poetic indeed. That doesn't make the story it tells any less true.

CONSERVATIVENEWSANDVIEWS.COM reports:
Michael Gungor accuses his critics of attacking him personally. He gives no solid evidence, defends himself weakly, and is still mistaken.

Answer 1

Some of the commonly-understood numbers are off. The Global Flood occurred some 5300 years ago. That is the most likely time all the known comets could have been at perihelion in one and the same year. That year was the year of their launch.

Michael Gungor made another kind of mistake. He rejected creation, and accepted uniformitarianism, abiogenesis, and "common descent," just when evidence began to accumulate that militates against all three.

Answer 2

Such perfect harmony the way it works.new land from volcanoes the old move toward tectonic plates to be swallow up. life is every where as is death as they feed of one another. yet some can see while other are blind. *** is every where. Every where is ***.

Answer 3

Why does this matter? Caveat Emptor.

Answer 4

After reading your synopsis of Gungor, I am relieved to admit that I have no idea who he is and couldn't care less what he believes. On the other hand, your consistent posts and cites, show you to be a man who knows what he is talking about. That's all I have.

Answer 5

All of this is a cancer passing through mankind called "Rebellion" isn't just a disease in the lost it's settling upon those who claim Christ as well mainly because American Christians are leading the way FROM behind. Michael Gungor is a victim of a lack of good education concerning the *** he sings about, soon he will deny him completely if we do not pray for him, this is a step down process begun by the darkness resting within his mind.

We have lost our sense of TRUE faith and become BELIEVERS in only what doesn't bring ridicule, we exchanged it for milk-toast religion that won't offend anyone. True Faith and True Science go hand and hand, *** DEMANDS REASONABLE THINKING PROCESES, but the pseudoscience of unbelief which is nothing more than an excuse for rebellion has been forced upon us by the media at every turn. They pound into our youth unproven and unsubstantiated ages of time that they know no one could possibly know as a fact!

In truth the Scientific method is NOT being used to gather this evidence because you cannot handle the DISTANT past to examine it, it's based completely on *********** that cannot be known.

1. Everything in the universe is random. There is no pattern or design to anything. Everything is a series of random happenstance. That includes you....

<!-- All of this is a cancer passing through mankind called "Rebellion" isn't just a disease in the lost it's settling upon those who claim Christ as well mainly because American Christians are leading the way FROM behind. Michael Gungor is a victim of a lack of good education concerning the *** he sings about, soon he will deny him completely if we do not pray for him, this is a step down process begun by the darkness resting within his mind. <br> <br>We have lost our sense of TRUE faith and become BELIEVERS in only what doesn't bring ridicule, we exchanged it for milk-toast religion that won't offend anyone. True Faith and True Science go hand and hand, *** DEMANDS REASONABLE THINKING PROCESES, but the pseudoscience of unbelief which is nothing more than an excuse for rebellion has been forced upon us by the media at every turn. They pound into our youth unproven and unsubstantiated ages of time that they know no one could possibly know as a fact! <br> <br>In truth the Scientific method is NOT being used to gather this evidence because you cannot handle the DISTANT past to examine it, it's based completely on *********** that cannot be known. <br> <br>1. Everything in the universe is random. There is no pattern or design to anything. Everything is a series of random happenstance. That includes you. Aren’t you proud of yourself? Random chance created you. Random chance will kill you. HOPELESSNESS! <br> <br>The basic principle, evolution, is taken for granted. F.M. Wuketits, an evolution theorist, writes: <br> <br>“We pre-suppose the essential correctness of biological evolution, yes, we ****** that evolution is universally valid.” <br> <br>Siewing defines biological evolution as follows: “The essence of the theory of evolution is contained in the statement that all systematic categories are eventually related; therefore, all known organisms are descendants of one common ancestor.” <br> <br>There are no definite beginning and *** points on the time axis. Anybody can therefore have as much time as he likes for the process of evolution. So it's a free for all with anything goes and that is NOT science, nothing has ever been nailed down as FACT! The present is the key to the past. This means that present-day observational data may be extrapolated as far back in time as one wishes. There was a smooth transition from non-life to life. The continuous development from simple atoms and molecules up to man is regarded as a smooth changeover from one example to the next: “The smooth conversion (from non-life to life) is a postulate of a reductionistic explanation” (B.-O. Küppers) <br> <br> <br>2. Your soul is a biological phenomenon, not a spiritual reality. Your feelings, emotions, wants, desires, aspirations and longings are purely biological. Just a series of chemical releases in the brain and rampant hormones on the loose. What you feel is not rooted in your spirit or inner self. According to the evolutionist, you are merely matter, nothing more, nothing less. They say this because they are unable to quantify the spiritual nature within us, so the only way to deal with it is to ignore it completely! REAL SCIENTIFIC! <br> <br>Evolution is a universal principle: “The principle of development not only holds for life on earth; it extends much further. It is quite clearly the most widely valid principle imaginable, because it encompasses the entire universe. . . . All of reality around us is characterized by a history of self-development. Biological evolution is only part of this universal process. <br> <br>3. Your value as a person is purely molecular, nothing more. You’re not special. You’re not unique. You don’t have extraordinary potential or significant worth. You are molecules living in space ******* into one another. Apparently your mother lied, *** didn’t break the mold when He made you. For the evolutionist, there is no ***. There is no mold. There is nothing whatsoever special about you. <br> <br>One should not drag in a creator (or designer, planning spirit, or “demiurge”). Ernest Kahane, a French molecular biologist, formulates it as follows: <br> <br>“It is absurd and absolutely preposterous to believe that a living cell could come into existence by itself; but, notwithstanding, I do believe it, because I cannot imagine anything else.” <br> <br>This world, including all living organisms, is based exclusively on matter and materialistic principles. It follows that the origin of life can only be found in matter. One can therefore exclude the possibility of a spiritual author for matter itself and for all life-forms. <br> <br>This view frees us from the difficulty of ******** that at some stage during the course of the development of our earth, after animal life had started, something immaterial or psychical, nobody knows from where, stepped in and caused various effects in brains and brain capacities. <br> <br>There is no plan in evolution, neither is there any purpose. No causes should be postulated for the purposefulness perceived in organic life, because that would imply a Creator: “It is not necessary to ****** a mysterious guiding principle for the purposefulness observed in the structure and life of all organisms . . . neither was a wise Creator necessary for their origin” (B. Rensch) <br> <br>Other quotations point in the same direction: “No causes can operate from the future; therefore there can be no pre-determined evolutionary purposes” (H. v. Ditfurth). <br> <br>4. The universe is very, very old. This ********** has to be true in order to have enough time for all the randomization and chance to produce the world and universe we have today. Since the world is so old, no chance that your life is going to make much of a difference in the larger scheme of things. If the universe is 80, 90, 100+ billions of years old, your meager 80 years of life isn’t going to matter one iota. <br> <br>Matter is taken for granted. The law of the conservation of energy together with Einstein’s equivalence of matter and energy, E = mc2, states that the sum total of all energy and all matter in our universe is constant. There is thus no scientific explanation for

Answer 6

I know that *** has created me and everything that is. So tell me then...what has Michael Gungor created?

Answer 7

He would point to his music. Of course, I happen not to care for "contemporary Christian music." But the subject here is his unfocused accusations, for which he presented very little evidence, and for which I personally could find none.

Answer 8

Have you any evidence that this *** created you? I would think your mommy and daddy did that..

Answer 9

They put a lot of energy in trying to prove *** doesn't exist. That's a lot of work for "nothing", isn't it?

Answer 10

Nature is everywhere, everywhere is nature....

Answer 11

Give us one instance of where archeology has proven the bible to be correct .. the most they have found are towns that actually existed,, however there has to be a little bit of correct history mixed in with all the other BS to make it acceptable to the gullible... The wizard of OZ had some actual history in it,, does that make it true??

Answer 12

He's in the wrong line of work. Liar and a fraud.

Answer 13

I, for one, find it difficult to understand why anyone could deny the creation. Man sure didn't make everything come into being!

Answer 14

Evolution was created by ***, the Earth was created in 6 days, they were not consecutive days, but days with millions of years in between them. Some of us are the direct descendants of *** and the rest of you have monkeys for ancestors. Whew, now that we've settled that, everybody just get along. The writings of the living *** were designed to separate the faithful from the non-faithful, either believe or don't. It's your decision..........

Answer 15

The biggest problem with your ********: plants can't survive miillions of years without animals to take the oxygen and return carbon dioxide. Even fire cannot provide enough carbon dioxide to sustain all plant life.

Answer 16

We currently have 21% O2 in our atmosphere, we are dangerously close to 24% O2 level, at that point the first spark will ignite the O2 on planet and consume all the O2 on Earth, leaving us all gasping for air. Early in the earths history there was no O2. It took millions of years for the O2 levels to reach the state they are at now. Keep in mind this is all conjecture and the only way I could think of to satisfy the Bible and science. Do you have any thoughts about how to get these two thoughts/ ideas/ dogmas to support each other?

Answer 17

Millions of years, bosh.That much time has never passed on earth.

Answer 18

How do we know? *** is trans/ multi dimensional. I am not saying this is what happened, I'm trying to come up with an idea to satisfy the biblical and scientific scholars.

Answer 19

The rediscovery of Nineveh, long after everyone had forgotten that ******* even existed.

Answer 20

we all believe what we believe. he can obviously ignore the fact that archeologists are continually proving the bible to be accurate historically. puma punku shows the devastion of a flood 7000 years ago. its at 14000 ft. the black sea was forty feet lower 7000 years ago. duh. the flood was global. the garden of eden has been found. its at the north *** of the persian gulf. under water. time after time when archeologists dig in the right place, voila, they dig up confirmation for the bible. has anybody told him this?

Answer 21

Believing the literal truth of a mythology is extra ignorant. I can forgive Mr. Gungor his frustration when dealing with the willfully ignorant.

And the constant smart-*** tone from the willfully ignorant sometime sets me off, too.

****, the self-deluded arrogance of myth believers.

Answer 22

Truth is truth, lies are lies.

Answer 23

Well, why don't you follow this link:

http://www.creationscience.co...

and think again about whether that's a mere myth?

Answer 24

Yeah, it is.

Answer 25

You do realize the link led to a ****-nosed scientific proof that a Global Flood did take place?

Answer 26

There are internet sites with ****-nosed, scientific proof that cigarettes don't cause cancer, that bigfoot exists, that Earth was visited by aliens millennium ago, and that ****** relationships between men and boys is good for everyone.

YEARS ago I learned how to not be duped by my own agenda. It's ****, but it can be done.

Answer 27

You are duped by your own agenda.

Answer 28

How so, Mr. Troll?

Answer 29

Oh, you got me!!! Honestly though, scientific evidence does abound, but many who refuse to believe will testify to its falsehood.

Answer 30

See, you just did it again! This is so fun!

Answer 31

Not true. None of those other works got it right, and they came later, not earlier. The Global Flood account is in fact the ship's log of Noah's Ark.

Answer 32

This guy has a future as a Democratic Party operative.

Answer 33

Politics aside, it really shows much of what's wrong with "Contemporary Christian Music" and the artists who make it.

I once saw a youth hall festooned with publicity posters from CCM artists. (I don't think the Gungor band was among them.) Those posters didn't look much different from American Top Forty posters! And the music doesn't sound much different from American Top Forty, either.

Answer 34

It is sad. These guys forget where they came from.

Answer 35

Evolution happens.

DNA exists. Roughly one in 200,000 times, when DNA is copied for cell reproduction or protein synthesis, a mutation occurs - a simple mis-bonding of bases, or something gets lost, or something gets added.

When DNA mutations occur, normally, that part of the code does nothing, so nothing normally happens.

In *** cell creation, a mutation affects every single cell in the human body of the *****.

This can lead to different genetic traits, which are acted upon by the environment - the ability to find food, the selection of mates based on certain traits, etc.

Evolution has happened in our lifetime.

Humans have been around for less than a quarter of a million years. The first animals with spines appeared about 525 million years ago. That's 2,625 times as long as we've been around.

Imagine, for a minute, that your book - written by men - doesn't describe anything but what men wrote in it to control the useful idiot masses.

Imagine that there is no meaning of life, and we're here randomly.

Now, I'm sure you'll head back to your religion, but really... there's evidence so strong that it should be considered proof that you're wrong.

Yes, if there was a creator, the evidence could have been placed there.

No, that's not really how it happened.

Answer 36

Just because the guy might act like an AH, that is no validation of creationism.

No one needs to insult creationist. But there is a problem that creationists have:
I have yet to hear an argument in favor of creationism that relies on supporting evidence.
I have yet to hear an argument in favor of creationism that explains all of the evidence that exists- or any of it.
If one were to rely on the evidence only, from many different disciplines of science, no one would arrive at a conclusion that would include that the earth is 6,000 years old, and that species on earth are not related in any way. It is impossible to use evidence to support a biblical series of events.

The only arguments I have ever heard in favor of creationism, are anti-evolution arguments.

Evolution can do something that creationism cannot. It can explain all of the existing evidence, and it does not need to mention any anti-creationist arguments in support of Evolution. The argument can be supported solely on the evidence.

Disagree? then Please provide an argument in favor of creationism that does not employ anti-evolution arguments, and does not include biblical reference.

Evolution is not about atheism. It is about identifying the life process of the earth and of the universe.

Personally, I don...

Just because the guy might act like an AH, that is no validation of creationism.

No one needs to insult creationist. But there is a problem that creationists have:
I have yet to hear an argument in favor of creationism that relies on supporting evidence.
I have yet to hear an argument in favor of creationism that explains all of the evidence that exists- or any of it.
If one were to rely on the evidence only, from many different disciplines of science, no one would arrive at a conclusion that would include that the earth is 6,000 years old, and that species on earth are not related in any way. It is impossible to use evidence to support a biblical series of events.

The only arguments I have ever heard in favor of creationism, are anti-evolution arguments.

Evolution can do something that creationism cannot. It can explain all of the existing evidence, and it does not need to mention any anti-creationist arguments in support of Evolution. The argument can be supported solely on the evidence.

Disagree? then Please provide an argument in favor of creationism that does not employ anti-evolution arguments, and does not include biblical reference.

Evolution is not about atheism. It is about identifying the life process of the earth and of the universe.

Personally, I don't understand why the only way that *** can exist is if the earth is 6,000 years old, and a 600 year old Noah but about 2 million species on an ark (some would include dinosaurs, because they would have to accept evolution to acknowledge that Dinosaurs died out about 65 million years ago)

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Answer 37

Because we have a Historical Record that says how old the earth was. (Actually I'd say 7,000 years or maybe 7,500. The comets tell us the time-line needs a stretch from the Masoretic Text and conforms more closely to the Septuagint.)

Evolution cannot explain the evidence. It cannot even explain why the animal species "exploded" onto the world scene in such a short time.

Answer 38

Animal species did not explode onto the world scene in a short time. The so called Cambrian "Explosion" was an event approximately 542 million years ago and lasted about 20 million years. But all of the species that appear throughout the sedimentary record, do not appear at this time.

There is not a historical record that shows that the earth is 7,500 years old. There is a geological record - one of sedimentary deposition. This alone does not tell us everything about the age of the earth. But what it does tell us, is that even if one were to ****** the peak rates of erosion and deposition, which any investigator would only do for the sake of argument, the amount of erosion and deposition that is known to have occurred could not have happened in less than 1.5 - 2 billion years.

There are currently about 1.9 million species that exist on earth, although some scientists estimate that the actual number could be much higher. This represents about 1%, probably less, of all species that have ever existed on the planet.

It is true that the actual number cannot ever be known, because fossilization is a very rare occurrence. Most organisms decay before they are covered in sediments.
But there are fossils found throughout the geological timeline.

And, if you do honest investigation, you ...

Animal species did not explode onto the world scene in a short time. The so called Cambrian "Explosion" was an event approximately 542 million years ago and lasted about 20 million years. But all of the species that appear throughout the sedimentary record, do not appear at this time.

There is not a historical record that shows that the earth is 7,500 years old. There is a geological record - one of sedimentary deposition. This alone does not tell us everything about the age of the earth. But what it does tell us, is that even if one were to ****** the peak rates of erosion and deposition, which any investigator would only do for the sake of argument, the amount of erosion and deposition that is known to have occurred could not have happened in less than 1.5 - 2 billion years.

There are currently about 1.9 million species that exist on earth, although some scientists estimate that the actual number could be much higher. This represents about 1%, probably less, of all species that have ever existed on the planet.

It is true that the actual number cannot ever be known, because fossilization is a very rare occurrence. Most organisms decay before they are covered in sediments.
But there are fossils found throughout the geological timeline.

And, if you do honest investigation, you will find that there is a certain kind of "organization" to the distribution of fossils throughout the geological timeline. And investigation of this "organization" leads to the realization that there are species of plant, animal and marine life that are pretty much unique to each period.

And this timeline reveals a progression of life, an evolution if you will, in a very general, but very obvious way from the simple to the more complex, leading ultimately to the evolution of intelligent life.

Of course I am just touching the surface. I can go on, and really discuss details and challenges that you may have to offer. But in the ***, I have yet to hear an evidence based argument that supports creationism as a life process on earth.

This is the reason that creationists have repeatedly failed to succeed in attempts to interject creationism in biology and science classes.

ID is a test of evolution (one that scientists are happy to answer), and does not meet the qualifications of a scientific theory- namely, all of the arguments are negative arguments against evolution, with no positive evidence used to support the ********** of ID proponents, and Michael Behe himself acknowledges that humans and apes share common ancestry (Much to the chagrin of creationists who were hoping for more from him) . His arguments are on the molecular level.

Don't worry, I also seem to disturb atheists with what I have to say about proving their **********. Namely, that they have no way to prove them. There is no way to know what the origin of the Universe is, there is no way to prove the cause of the "Big Bang". True, it is most likely natural as opposed to supernatural causes, but there is no way to prove that something came from nothing. Also, if one were to really delve into what we now know about the Universe and the processes that govern the Universe and life here on earth, it kind of becomes obvious that there is purpose to all of this- and that purpose is the evolution of life and ultimately intelligent life.

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Answer 39

The great flood also is featured in earlier works, the epics of Ziusudra, Gilgamesh, and Atrahasis, which the Old Testament borrowed from.

Answer 40

You won't. You can't. The motive of the scientific scholars is to obviate ***.

The Annals of Noah (Genesis 5:1b-6:9a) belie the millions of years.